Miyamoto The Interview Part 2

[Read Part 1]

 

Wii Titles that Miyamoto is Involved in.

 

- How many titles are you currently involved with, Mr Miyamoto?

 

Miyamoto:

Although I’ll mainly be working on titles for the Wii, some of the titles haven’t been announced yet so I can’t really tell you how many projects it is that I’m working on. All I can say is that… (pauses to think)… I’m directly involved with a lot of titles. As for titles that are going to be released, I worked on the whole Zelda game, "Mario Galaxy" and "Wii Sports". I also worked on something known as the "Remote Pointer Demo" that was on exhibition at E3 and demonstration events.

 

- Sounds very much like "Duck Hunt".

 

Miyamoto:

(Laughs). Yes. I’m involved with the majority of titles that’s been announced so far.

[more]

 

- I see. So which of the titles are you deeply involved with in development?

 

Miyamoto:

I’m deeply involved with all of them so it’s a lot of work (Laughs). The Zelda game was brought up at the last moment and we had to get moving with Mario too. Then there was also Star Fox Command to work on so it was a busy time. I know Star Fox is for the DS but I thought I would do a bit of promotion here (Laughs).

 

- Of course (Laughs)

 

Miyamoto:

Well, that’s how things are going so I have my hands full. I also had to take care of a lot of administration work, look over overseas titles and contracts so I’m up to the brim in work. However, I’ve settled all of that with Iwata so that a different section of the company will take care of it and now you can see me as a member of the Entertainment Analysis and Development Department again.

 

The Focus is on Tennis and Electronic Dictionaries?

 

- Which Wii title are you focusing on, Mr. Miyamoto?

 

Miyamoto:

(Thinking hard). I’m putting a lot of effort in the title that Mr. Sao announced at E3!

 

- After the E3 press conference, everyone thought the Wii was wonderful but, it seems they were expecting a surprise Wii title from Nintendo.

 

Miyamoto:

Yes. I can’t tell you about the details yet but, it’s something new so do wait a little longer (Laughs). At the moment, it will have to be the tennis part of "Wii Sports". The user base for that title is really big and everyone’s saying it’s fun. It’s rare to have that kind of attention on a title. When I see both people who don’t play games and people who do dive into the game with such enthusiasm, I wonder if it’s going to end up as a rival to Super Mario. It shows the game’s that easy to play. In that sense, I have my focus on "tennis" at the moment. Both Iwata and I said we were going to focus on tennis during this year’s E3 and last year but when we told NoA (Nintendo of America) that, they were kind of sceptical (Laughs). We then decided to gather all the officials of NoA and let them try out the software themselves. That’s when they found out for the first time, "This is fun!" But of course, tennis isn’t going to be the only fun title; all Wii titles will be just as good.

 

- It’s all a fresh experience after all.

 

Miyamoto:

Yes. Although this doesn’t just apply to the Wii, once you’ve played a game for a while you can’t get enough of it. However, in the case of the Wii, even if it’s been a week since you haven’t played it, you’ll still be itching to get a shot at it once it’s the weekend. Especially when your friends come along (looking really happy), you’ll be saying, "Good timing!" (Laughs). I think the most important aspect about a home console has to be being able to invite friends over to play. It might be different for those playing alone in a boarding house but, even those people should get excited I think and they could even use it to welcome guests.

 

- And you can use it to lure your girlfriend over to your house too? (Laughs)

 

Miyamoto:

No, I don’t mean you lure (Laughs). It’s just highly possible that you can invite friends or other people to your home. Also, depending on who you invite over to play, you might want to prepare the appropriate software to welcome them too.

 

- Yes, you would.

 

Miyamoto:

With the Wii, there is a wide variety of software lined up for people of all interests. So in that sense, you have many things you can enjoy with this console.

 

- Maybe the "brain training" titles that’s appearing on the DS too?

 

Miyamoto:

Yes. And tennis. I think that’s more or less the kind of software you would go for but, about a year later or so something much more surprising may appear.

 

- You mean the software that you wouldn’t tell us about earlier?

 

Miyamoto:

It’s something we must do to reach the top. It’s our job after all.

 

- Now that you mention it, you said you were dreaming about something else besides the Wii.

 

Miyamoto:

Oh, that’s a different matter (Laughs).

 

- What do you mean "different"?! Do tell us.

 

Miyamoto:

I really can’t tell you. But about 3 years ago it was something that was really popular with Mr Itoi (Shigesato) and I. Do you know what it is?

 

- Hmmm, "Cabbage"! (a rumoured title.)

 

Miyamoto:

Haha! (Grins) Electronic dictionaries.

 

- You mean normal electronic dictionaries?

 

Miyamoto:

Yes. Electronic dictionaries are really interesting. I’m so obsessed with them in daily life that I thought I would try creating a product out of them and that’s how a few titles were made for the DS. But er, I wasn’t the one that made the dictionaries of course (Laughs).

 

- So far, games consoles have remained just what they are - game consoles. But from now on, it’s going to be an age where non-game related titles will also appear on the consoles too, am I right?

 

Miyamoto:

Yes. For example, if you don’t have a catchy name such as "War and Weapons", you wouldn’t think it’s a game title but, for something like, "Get Absorbed in Cooking", you’ll already know what it’s about on the DS. Long ago when the Famicom was out, it wouldn’t have been possible to link cooking with games but looking at the DS now, I can see there’s a great market for cooking titles. This is all thanks to the DS’ special hardware allowing you to go through an experience as if you were actually cooking and there are many consumers who are interested in such an aspect. Although someone did suggest we try such titles out on the GC, I just couldn’t see the link between the cookers and the console.

 

- But the Wii’s going to be associated with a variety of people won’t it?

 

Miyamoto:

I’m working hard hoping that’ll happen (Laughs).

 

Easy to Connect, the Wii and DS

 

- There will be various ways of linking the DS and the Wii won’t there? Such as linking "O-Ryouri Navi" (a talking cookbook title on the DS) to it and sending the recipe data over to replay the movies.

 

Miyamoto:

You’ll be able to do all sorts of things with them. Both the DS and Wii can be connected easily while you’re playing them. I wouldn’t say the connectivity is great but this time, we have hardware built in to make the connection easier to establish. With it, you can connect to the internet and there are many other possibilities.

 

- Until now, you had to have a cable ready and go through many other troublesome matters before you could link up but, now you can connect devices easily even without the technical knowledge.

 

Miyamoto:

Yes. Not long ago, I was on a company trip and on the train, 3 people were playing "Yakuman DS" (Mario Mahjong) but before we new it, 4 people were playing together (Laughs). In the end, they didn’t know who the 4th person was. Whoever it was must have left after playing the game of Mahjong (Laughs). But anyway, it’s natural for someone to wonder if anyone’s playing anything on the trains that the Nintendo staff use for company trips and when they turn on Download Play, they’ll probably find themselves invited to a game of Mahjong or something although there are all sorts of people around (Laughs). You can get invited to a game so easily just by turning on your DS and using Download Play. All this is like you’re connected to the internet on those carriages. Now if you think about it, wouldn’t the same thing happen with the Wii?

 

- I see. Speaking of linking. I was wondering if you’ll tell us about how the Famicom titles are linked to the Wii?

 

Miyamoto:

Well I could but it won’t be much (Laughs)

 

- (Laughs) Well, our last question for this issue is, have you ate anything good lately?

 

Miyamoto:

That question again? (Laughs) Hmmm… Let me think about it (Laughs)

 

- Both Laughs

 

Continuing with Issue 150 of Nintendo DREAM

 

An End to a Decade of Gaming

 

- First of all, congratulations in receiving the "Chevalier de L’Ordre des Arts et des Lettres" award. You do have that medal with you today, don’t you?

 

Miyamoto:

Yes, I do (takes it out of his bag).

 

- Wow, that’s a real medal! How did you feel when you were receiving it?

 

Miyamoto:

With other people being awarded too, I generally knew what was happening but, as for myself being there, I don’t know what award was for what (Laughs).

 

- Of course (Laughs). You’ve received a lot of awards so far Mr. Miyamoto but, the implication behind this medal was different wasn’t it?

 

Miyamoto:

Well, yes. So far most of the awards I have received were related to the games industry but this one wasn’t. It is an "approval of service to the culture of the games industry." I’m very grateful to receive the award because it shows that I have carried out great service in the important cultural exchanges with France.

 

- Well, here’s a bit of self-flattery but, Nindori’s heading towards its 10th anniversary with its 150th issue.

 

Miyamoto:

Congratulations.

 

- Thank you. It’s been 23 years since the Famicom went on sale so these 10 years can’t really compare to it but, we’ve been through so much in these years.

 

Miyamoto:

It passes in the blink of an eye.

 

- "Blink of an eye"… From a 10 years point of view from the magazine business, it’s been really long. As far as home consoles are concerned, the N64 and GC have been out for a while and now the Wii is going to be released soon too.

 

Miyamoto:

In that case, the time for the 2nd generation of gamers is over. When the N64 came out 10 years ago, it began the 2nd generation of gaming and now the market for it has cooled down rapidly over here in Japan.

 

- Ah, yes. You could say it’s an end to a decade of gaming.

 

Miyamoto:

Presently in the games industry, you would think they’re trying to find a way to keep the mobile phone game market active but in actual fact, the games are becoming a standard part of mobile phones. Also, with so many part time job workers, you’re in a time where there are no companies being established that’ll damage the business. Saying that however, things have changed a lot from 10 years ago and maybe it’s time we looked over game consoles again.

 

- Not long ago, lots of people within this industry said that, "Our games aren’t selling because of mobile phones."

 

Miyamoto:

Yes. But the DS is selling so well right now. We designed the DS by looking over gaming consoles again and we had also planned to look over the home consoles too. When you look at computers, is the next year OS really going to be better than past ones? I think this whole decade of repeating the same thing again and again for the future is ending. During the decade before 1996 I think new things were released and accepted at a quick pace. Back then, game machines that could also serve for business purposes were considered to be a luxury and that’s why the best technology were used for them but, home machines also gained top place with their staggering numbers. 10 years later now, we thought we would take another look at the gaming consoles themselves to come up with something better. It’s really hard to sum up the 10 years in words. Besides, this story has to be easier for the readers to understand than for Mr. Sao (Laughs).

 

- Well, this is a 10 year anniversary interview after all so lets go about it light heartedly (Laughs)

 

Over these 10 Years, the Times have Changed Greatly

 

Miyamoto:

The times have really changed over the decade. I met Mr. Sao and the others this year over in America by chance and had a chance to speak with them about it.

 

- You met them by chance in the Harriet Cafe during the last night of E3, didn’t you? If you didn’t meet them, we might not be having this interview here in this Shigureden now.

 

Miyamoto:

…?

 

- You were the one that suggested we do a 10 year anniversary interview here in Shigureden that night, Mr. Miyamoto.

 

Miyamoto:

Really (Laughs). I spoke with Mr. Sao about many things that night so I’m worried that Mr. Sao will say something like, "I already heard all this at E3" (Laughs).

 

- No, he wouldn’t say that (Laughs). It’s good to hear your stories, Mr. Miyamoto no matter how many times we hear them.

 

Miyamoto:

But I was wondering maybe you all know about the Wii already from the recent easy to understand presentation by Iwata.

 

- It’s true that Mr. Iwata’s presentation was easy to understand.

 

Miyamoto:

Long ago, I had to go along with all sorts of interviews but now, I don’t really have to do that. (Looking taken aback), it’s been 10 years since you last showed me a picture of me from university, hasn’t it?

 

- That’s right (Laughs). We interviewed you for the first time 10 years ago during summer. You lent us a photo from your childhood back then.

 

Miyamoto:

Oh, so it’s been 10 years since then.

 

- Just before we were going to interview you for the first time, we tried to research all sorts of things about you. At the time, the internet wasn’t very common so we had to work with some correspondence. The personal database we used cost us some money but, when we searched for you in it, we were impressed that we found 1 case. We read that you were "Born in the Taisho Era. A military lieutenant. Went missing on Mount Burma" (Laughs)

 

- Both laughs.

 

Miyamoto:

Wasn’t there anything else peculiar in it? (Laughs) That database must have been no good (Laughs)

 

- No good, indeed. And it cost us too (Laughs). But if you search for your name now on the internet, you’ll find there are over 100 thousand entries. That’s why I think 10 years has been a really long time.

 

Miyamoto:

In this age, you can browse the internet on a DS too (Laughs).

 

The Famicom that "Neko mo Shakushi mo" Played.

 

- Lets forget it having been a decade and look back at the other consoles. We don’t have much time so we’ll have to hurry on with this interview… If you were to give the Famicom a catch phrase right now, what would it be? I think there’s a lot of choice but would it be something along the lines of "For Business Use" or "The Beginning of Games"?

 

Miyamoto:

The Famicom is for "Neko mo Shakushi mo".

 

- "Neko mo Shakushi mo"?

 

*It’s a Japanese saying that means “everyone”.

 

Miyamoto:

Yes. Games started off as an "invader" into businesses and then came the Famicom.

 

- It’s true everyone played it. How did you feel when you created the big hit "Super Mario" that sold 4 million copies worldwide, something that no one has ever experienced? It was as if you suddenly changed from being a normal human into a Tengu.

 

*The Tengu is a kind of minor god found in Japanese folklore.

 

Miyamoto:

Turning into a Tengu didn’t mean everything. It was all thanks to Yamauchi’s (Mr. Hiroshi Yamauchi was the previous Nintendo President but is now the advisor) guidance too.

 

- That’s how good Mr. Yamauchi is. But 4 million sales isn’t a mere figure that you see everyday.

 

Miyamoto:

Now that I think about it, I was very fortunate for the success it had overseas. But back then at the time, I was thinking that it would naturally gain success. We had thought about how difficult it was to bring it overseas and also if was going to be accepted by the market when we were planning to market it there. Also, video games themselves originated from America and we had no knowledge about how to bring in Japanese culture overseas. But our work started with computers being used in video game offices that were both overseas and in Japan. We knew that we could sell1 million copies just like in Japan but that wasn’t enough to push us to the rest of the "world". Also, when I started developing titles, Nintendo of America (NoA) opened up and words such as "credit" or "insert coin" started off as English.

 

- It’s really amazing that you thought it would naturally gain success and how it sold 4 million copies.

 

The Change in Games on the SFC and N64

 

- Next up, we have the Super Famicom. What catch phrase would you give that?

 

Miyamoto:

Super Famicom hmmm… (thinks for a bit) It will have to be "Surpass the Famicom". It’s to show how it’s there to try and make up for the areas that the Famicom didn’t quite satisfy.

 

- So just as the name suggests, it’s a "Super Famicom".

 

Miyamoto:

Yes. First there’s the extra layers in graphics and then there’s the jump in the number of characters you can play with. We could generally display most of the things that couldn’t have been done on the Famicom. It still wasn’t at the level that could be used in businesses but, it was satisfying enough for home use.

 

- I see. And then after that came the N64 age.

 

Miyamoto:

The N64 was clearly made for “three dimensions”. With the 3D graphics, you had a greater amount of freedom in game environments.

 

- "Games will change. The 64 can change them." was the catch phrase then and they really did change.

 

Miyamoto:

They did but at the same time, there were also a large number of people who weren’t playing games anymore. I think we could clearly see the crowd being split into people who played games and those who didn’t.

 

The Birth of the GC after Reflecting on the N64

 

- And then came the time of the GC.

 

Miyamoto:

Oh yes, the GC that we created because lots of people in society were still playing games. Aimed at the weakening core market, the GC performed much better than the PS2 and was the superior platform to create games on. However, having the trivial feature of being able to view DVDs too, the PS2 opened up a gap between it and the GC.

 

- When you announced the GC, you revealed that "reflection on the N64" was taken and it allowed developers to design games for it much more easily along with other things so I don’t think the GC strategy itself had anything to do with that gap.

 

Miyamoto:

Yes. We had to work with a third party to create the optical media instead of a ROM set. We also had to strengthen the security to protect our games by creating a unique kind of optical media so we done everything we should have but because we couldn’t work together with a certain third party, our console couldn’t play DVDs and some consumers left us. It was also related to how some decisive titles couldn’t be prepared for the console. It wasn’t that there weren’t enough titles but, Nintendo just couldn’t make the titles that would sell well for the different markets. And because of that we naturally said to ourselves, "Next time after the GC we’ll create much more decisive titles!" but then we also thought, "Wait a minute, entertainment can’t always stay like this… We need a Paradigm Shift". And that’s how we ended up with the Wii.

 

- So that’s why you don’t call the "Wii" the next generation console.

 

The Potential of the Wii Console

 

- So what is the catch phrase for the Wii?

 

Miyamoto:

It’s "One More Time, Neko mo Shakushi mo".

 

- It was a decade for the Famicom and Super Famicom. A decade for the N64 and GC. Now a new decade begins with the Wii.

 

Miyamoto:

Yes, it all starts here.

 

- Looking at the titles that have been announced so far, the pace at which games are being released is comparable to the N64 and GC.

 

Miyamoto:

The hardware is basically a GC. We’ve upgraded our development tools to new versions but, you can still use GC programs as they are. With that in mind, I thought we could remake GC titles for the Wii and modify them to work with the Wii remote so that they’re more fun to play.

 

- By making GC titles work with the Wii remote, they’re going to be reborn.

 

Miyamoto:

Yes. However, you can still find some GC titles at second hand shops being sold so I don’t think we’ll be able to sell them at full price but because the development funds itself have been taken care of, we should be able to sell them at a moderate price. If we can release these GC remakes for the Wii quickly then we’ll be able to release more games from the third parties.

 

- So does that mean it’s possible that that’s what Nintendo will do?

 

Miyamoto:

Yes, relatively thinking. It should be an interesting test to release the new Zelda game on both the Wii and GC.

 

- I see. So that’s what it’s about.

 

Miyamoto:

For a brief period of time, some of the staff said, "The Wii has better capabilities than the GC so lets improve the graphics." But Zelda fans aren’t really looking forward to a improved version of the game and are only looking for it to be fun so, I said all we have to do is make something fun for both the Wii and GC. Recently, we finally reached the conclusion that, "the Wii isn’t a console seeking for the next generation graphics." Of course, there are games that seek to have good graphics so you’ll see the titles split up that way.

 

- So you mean the Wii isn’t seeking to become the most powerful console but instead, its value is in a different area.

 

Miyamoto:

Yes. I’ve been saying "you can play together with your family" as if it’s a dream all this time but, it’s been more or less impossible to achieve until now. However, I think it will be fairly possible with the Wii. There aren’t any consoles that can achieve such a thing.

 

Swinging your Arms to Swing a Sword in the Wii Version of "Zelda"

 

- Since you happened to mention Zelda, lets talk about it a little. It was said at E3 that, "This will be the best Zelda game in history."

 

Miyamoto:

Yes. It feels like it finished up pretty well. You pressed the B button at E3 and you could swing your sword.

 

- Yes, I know you can swing the sword with the press of a button but, what you really mean is swinging the remote, right? (Laughs)

 

Miyamoto:

Yes. We’re making a version of the game where you swing your arms to swing the sword too. If you actually try it yourself, you’ll find it’s more fun that way.

 

- What! You can swing the remote when you’re fighting to defeat enemies? Wouldn’t that tire you out?

 

Miyamoto:

No, a little swing will be enough to make the game react and if you’ve tried playing the game, you’ll find it’s not all about battles so you don’t have to worry about tiring yourself out. At E3, we explained to the overseas visitors, "you swing the sword by pressing the button because otherwise, you’ll get tired swinging the remote" but right afterwards, they still swung their arms (Laughs). So this time, I think we’ll have consent to update the features of the game. Even in the Wii’s concept video, we were swinging our arms (Laughs).

 

- Really (Laughs)

 

Miyamoto:

Firing arrows with the D-Pad is difficult isn’t it?

- It is pretty perplexing.

 

Miyamoto:

That’s why we’ve changed it so that you fire it with the B button. Since we’ve changed it so that you can use the sword by swinging your hand, the B button was unused. You should be happier if you can fire arrows quickly.

 

- Very happy (Laughs)

 

Miyamoto:

But maybe I should have kept that a secret.

 

- It’s Nindori’s 10th anniversary, never mind about that (Laughs)

 

Miyamoto:

Well, since it’s the magazine’s anniversary, I’ll forget it (Laughs)

 

- By the way, there’s a lot of people who don’t know whether they should play the Wii version or the GC version.

 

Miyamoto:

We’re really at the last stages of finishing the games. After finishing them both versions, it’ll be irresponsible for me to state which one is more fun but, from my personal experience, I think the Wii version is more fun.

 

- But both versions do have their own ways of having fun in the game.

 

Miyamoto:

Of course. Both Zelda games will be fun!! I can’t tell you yet but, there are some amazing features in the Zelda games this time. What people played at E3 was only the tip of iceberg. All they experienced was fishing and entering the dungeons. The wolf from last year’s run off somewhere (Laughs) Since Zelda’s been on a horse already, nothing should appear this time.

 

What Happened to those Games?

 

Mario 64 - 2 (N64)

 

Miyamoto:

"Mario 64 - 2" hmmm…

 

- It was made for the 64DD wasn’t it? You said, "Luigi will also be active" in one of our interviews.

 

Miyamoto:

(Thinking hard)… Sorry, I’ve forgotten about it (Laughs) But I think it became some other title.

 

- So you mean the game system appeared in some other title?

 

Miyamoto:

When we made "Mario 64" we originally had both Luigi and Mario working together but we couldn’t finish off the game.

 

Cabbage (64DD)

 

Miyamoto:

It’s gone.

 

- (Looking sad) It’s gone huh…

 

Miyamoto:

But you know, when we were making “Cabbage”, we approached the title along the lines of “Nintendogs”.

 

- In another interview, you said, "I want to do something in the year 2000."

 

Miyamoto:

We were still working on it until 6 years ago (Laughs). But both Mr Itoi (Shigesato) and Mr. Ishibara became so busy with work…

 

Mario 128 (GC)

 

Miyamoto:

We experimented with the game for a long time and some parts of it you’ll find on the Wii in "Mario Galaxy".

 

- Oh really? Which parts?

 

Miyamoto:

I can’t tell you (Laughs)

 

- Will a giant frying pan appear in space? (Laughs)

 

Miyamoto:

(Laughs) The concept behind "Mario 128" is experimenting. The idea of being able to walk around on a sphere in "Mario Galaxy" came from "Mario 128".

 

- So there is gravity then.

 

Miyamoto:

Yes, it’s quite a big element in the game. The whole theme of "Mario Galaxy" is being able to run around comfortably and we done a lot of experimenting with it. You can make Mario run around comfortably using the Wii remote.

 

- You let people play it at E3 but, those who aren’t good with 3D games won’t get motion sickness will they?

 

Miyamoto:

No they won’t. Director Yoshiaki Koizumi created a "motion sickness free" camera thanks to his long years of experience.

 

- So it’s called the "motion sickness free camera" huh. That’s wonderful!

 

Miyamoto:

It’s aimed at allowing everyone to play 3D games.

 

- (Turning to Kazuya from the editing department) Kazuya’s no good with 3D games because he catches motion sickness right away. He was so happy at E3 when he said, "I can play this!" (Laughs)

 

Miyamoto:

I’m glad. I want everyone to have a comfortable experience with their first 3D game.

 

MarioNette (N64)

 

Miyamoto:

"MarioNette" maybe heading for the Wii.

 

- I had thought so too.

 

Miyamoto:

But this kind of game isn’t easy to work with. At a glance, it looks fun but we have problems to deal with such as, "So happens what now?" We’d like to work with a market with games that you can pickup and have some quick fun but, when someone goes "What happens now?" we have to add in a lot of story. When that happens, the game becomes too blown up.

 

- As the name suggests, "MarioNette" is about controlling a puppet show with the Wii remote. I think it’s amazing how you came up with putting the two words "Mario" and "-nette" together to convey the idea of a puppet game.

 

Miyamoto:

Yes but we’re not working on the title just now. We’ll leave it as some material to talk about sometime some place else when the timing is right. When we came up with the plans for "MarioNette", it was fun using the N64 controller but with the Wii controller, I think it’s going to feel much more natural and more fun to play.

 

Stage Debut (GC)

 

Miyamoto:

Part of the game, we’ll be using the Wii’s Kokeshis (Miis)

 

- In the E3 demo "Airplane", family members were standing around casually I see. After looking about, I found the father dancing on top of a mountain (Laughs) So I presume the Wii’s Kokeshi feature can be used in whatever way the games desginers wish.

 

Miyamoto:

If you think about it, players will be happy to see such figures after being able to create them so easily.

 

- Which means players can both create and play comfortably.

 

Miyamoto:

But presently, if a girl makes use of a smile for say a week, she may find someone telling her, “I don’t like that smile” (Laughs). That’s why we thought to ourselves maybe we had to work on the creative side of the things for our players and that things weren’t balanced out. We then decided to use Kokeshis instead so they’re much easier to create.

 

End of Interview

[Read Part 1]